Following on from the 'Best Punk Band' thread in which I named Wire the best punk band, there appears to be some (admittedly minor) controversy over there as to whether Wire were actually a punk band or not.

Chairs Missing and 154 are clearly post-punk albums, but it is possible for a band to be both punk AND post-punk.

Also, is punk more a spirit or a movement? Because if punk is a spirit then post-punk was mostly punk in the sense of ripping up established rock music norms, etc, and in particular Wire did more than anyone else to advance punk into more experimental terrain.

Pink Flag is a punk classic though, as much as it leads into post-punk (which is much better and more interesting anyway)- it is still a punk album, but it is possible to see in it the seeds of a large part of the post-punk movement, from all the way from Gang of Four (especially Solid Gold-era) to Minor Threat to much more poppy stuff that sounds like Three Girl Rhumba (like Elastica who shamelessly ripped it off) and even Flipper (is it just me or does the title track sound a bit like Flipper?).

So, any thoughts?